<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Debate forum left 09/22/10</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/debate-forum-left-092210/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/debate-forum-left-092210/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=debate-forum-left-092210</link>
	<description>Miami Valley&#039;s Arts, Culture &#38; News Weekly</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 05:00:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/debate-forum-left-092210/comment-page-1/#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/?p=1313#comment-701</guid>
		<description>First, the depression ended somewhere from the mid 30&#039;s to the 40&#039;s depending on who you talk to.  Around 1936 unemplyoment began a dramatic recovery.  1943 is an incredibly late date to set the end of the depression.  Secondly, what does &quot;25% lower than it should be&quot; mean?  It appears by what you&#039;ve said that unemployment was gaining ground, just slower than one might expect.  That&#039;s actually good, right?  

And third, I&#039;ve read the study you are talking about.  All of their estimations are theoretical, and are based on allowing prevailing market forces to work.  Here&#039;s the problem.  Pure capitalism is like pure communism.  Neither exists in the real world, because corperations with large ammounts of money use that cash to unfairly compete with smaller businesses and to generate large but unsustainable financial advances that eventually collapse if left unregulated.  

As a matter of fact, the Great Depression started because Hoover did precisely that and allowed investments in the stock market to get so out of control that all of a sudden it all imploded.  To suggest that we should then fix the problem by allowing unrestricted capitalistic forces to work their magic is incredibly callous to reality.  That&#039;s like putting out a fire with a flamethrower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, the depression ended somewhere from the mid 30&#8242;s to the 40&#8242;s depending on who you talk to.  Around 1936 unemplyoment began a dramatic recovery.  1943 is an incredibly late date to set the end of the depression.  Secondly, what does &#8220;25% lower than it should be&#8221; mean?  It appears by what you&#8217;ve said that unemployment was gaining ground, just slower than one might expect.  That&#8217;s actually good, right?  </p>
<p>And third, I&#8217;ve read the study you are talking about.  All of their estimations are theoretical, and are based on allowing prevailing market forces to work.  Here&#8217;s the problem.  Pure capitalism is like pure communism.  Neither exists in the real world, because corperations with large ammounts of money use that cash to unfairly compete with smaller businesses and to generate large but unsustainable financial advances that eventually collapse if left unregulated.  </p>
<p>As a matter of fact, the Great Depression started because Hoover did precisely that and allowed investments in the stock market to get so out of control that all of a sudden it all imploded.  To suggest that we should then fix the problem by allowing unrestricted capitalistic forces to work their magic is incredibly callous to reality.  That&#8217;s like putting out a fire with a flamethrower.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Fodor</title>
		<link>http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/debate-forum-left-092210/comment-page-1/#comment-692</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Fodor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 02:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/?p=1313#comment-692</guid>
		<description>Rana: 

   You may know your English...but not your history. 

   A study conducted in 2004 by 2 UCLA economists (that&#039;s University Of Southern California...not exactly a bastion of conservative thought.) shows FDR&#039;s policies actually EXTENDED the Great Depression by 7 years. 

   In the August, 2004 &quot;Journal Of Political Economy&quot;, study authors Harold Cole and Lee Ohanian said the problem was FDR&#039;s &quot;ill-conceived stimulus policies&quot;. (Sound familiar?) In fact, Cole and Ohanian blame FDR&#039;s anti-competition and pro-labor measures (familiar again...maybe?) that Roosevelt signed into law in 1933.

   According to this study, yes, wages following the implementation of Roosevelt&#039;s policies in 11 key industries were 25% higher on average, but unemployment was 25 percent higher than it should have been. (FDR&#039;s version of President Obama&#039;s &quot;new normal&quot;, as we live with 10% stated unemployment, with &quot;actual&quot; unemployment, when you add those who have stopped looking for work, at around 16 or 17 percent). 

   In fact, one of the final determinations of this study is that FDR&#039;s economics really did artificially inflate wages and prices. 

   And, according to the study, without the policies of &quot;stimulus&quot;, Cole and Ohanian contend that the Great Depression would have ended in 1936. A lot earlier than when they contend it ended: 1943.

   In fact, the pair states from their study that &quot;recovery came only after the Department of Justice dramatically stepped enforcement of antitrust cases nearly four-fold and organized labor suffered a long string of setbacks.&quot;

   So, what do we have today, Rani?  Stimulus after stimulus after stimulus after stimulus...government support leaned overwhelmingly in favor of labor unions, and the businesses in which they are deeply entrenched, (Think GM, Chrysler, Delphi..and let&#039;s not forget about the unions representing government workers, Teamster pensions, and yes...Teachers unions). If this report is right, America could be ruined...because a Harvard Law School grad who never produced a single product in his life, thought he could copy FDR&#039;s &quot;success&quot;. 

    A &quot;success&quot; that just might be nothing but the work of historical spin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rana: </p>
<p>   You may know your English&#8230;but not your history. </p>
<p>   A study conducted in 2004 by 2 UCLA economists (that&#8217;s University Of Southern California&#8230;not exactly a bastion of conservative thought.) shows FDR&#8217;s policies actually EXTENDED the Great Depression by 7 years. </p>
<p>   In the August, 2004 &#8220;Journal Of Political Economy&#8221;, study authors Harold Cole and Lee Ohanian said the problem was FDR&#8217;s &#8220;ill-conceived stimulus policies&#8221;. (Sound familiar?) In fact, Cole and Ohanian blame FDR&#8217;s anti-competition and pro-labor measures (familiar again&#8230;maybe?) that Roosevelt signed into law in 1933.</p>
<p>   According to this study, yes, wages following the implementation of Roosevelt&#8217;s policies in 11 key industries were 25% higher on average, but unemployment was 25 percent higher than it should have been. (FDR&#8217;s version of President Obama&#8217;s &#8220;new normal&#8221;, as we live with 10% stated unemployment, with &#8220;actual&#8221; unemployment, when you add those who have stopped looking for work, at around 16 or 17 percent). </p>
<p>   In fact, one of the final determinations of this study is that FDR&#8217;s economics really did artificially inflate wages and prices. </p>
<p>   And, according to the study, without the policies of &#8220;stimulus&#8221;, Cole and Ohanian contend that the Great Depression would have ended in 1936. A lot earlier than when they contend it ended: 1943.</p>
<p>   In fact, the pair states from their study that &#8220;recovery came only after the Department of Justice dramatically stepped enforcement of antitrust cases nearly four-fold and organized labor suffered a long string of setbacks.&#8221;</p>
<p>   So, what do we have today, Rani?  Stimulus after stimulus after stimulus after stimulus&#8230;government support leaned overwhelmingly in favor of labor unions, and the businesses in which they are deeply entrenched, (Think GM, Chrysler, Delphi..and let&#8217;s not forget about the unions representing government workers, Teamster pensions, and yes&#8230;Teachers unions). If this report is right, America could be ruined&#8230;because a Harvard Law School grad who never produced a single product in his life, thought he could copy FDR&#8217;s &#8220;success&#8221;. </p>
<p>    A &#8220;success&#8221; that just might be nothing but the work of historical spin.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
